The Handlebar Club Forum

Here's the quick background. I'm currently underemployed ... I left my field of study (I hold a doctorate in Higher Education Administration and Policy Study) a while back to pursue other endeavors and begin my own business. That business did not last through the recent bump in the economy, so I took a chance to return to the University for a more stable paycheck. The mortgage always wins. But, as I've stated, I'm working well beneath my experience level (and salary level, for that matter).

The good things are that I love my job and feel I make very good connections with students in crisis on a daily basis. I feel like I change lives for the better and have a real knack for reaching students who need to take a long, honest look at the decisions they've been making. I could stay in this position and remain very happy for a while.

The pay is very low, but I appreciate the security the job offers. Even in tight economic times, Higher Ed. usually fares pretty well. We can afford what we need to afford, we can take a few trips here and there, and my daughters receive free tuition at an outstanding school. All in all, life is good.

But I'm applying for an Assistant Dean job that is better suited to my experience level. It looks like an outstanding job within an outstanding college at the same University. I've worked with many of the faculty in this college and have even co-facilitated a few courses. The salary looks to be nearly twice what I currently make. I'm well qualified and have a decent shot at getting an interview, I think. In short, I would love this job and the salary that accompanies it.

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While people respect the work I do, they all kind of chuckle at the 'stache. Not in a demeaning way ... I think they just like to have fun vicariously through me and celebrate the fact that I express myself. I would classify my current Dali 'stache as pretty neatly presented. It has not reached the flamboyant stage (length) of a true Dali-esque 'stache, but it still stands out. I find it looks more "professional" when held in a tight curl. I can make it look a bit more "edgy" by pulling it straight out.

The people who know me and work with me on a daily basis respect my work, offer regular accolades, and really don't notice the 'tache too much anymore. Comments from students tend toward the celebration end of the spectrum ("awesome 'stache, dude!). People I interact with on a less regular basis still comment nearly every time they see it ("wow, it's getting long!" sorts of comments). Yeah ... that's what mustaches do ... they grow.

Were I to get an interview, I'd be running into people in the latter of the two categories above as well as people who don't really know me at all. Let's face it ... for those who have never met me, this is an "out of the box" sort of way to present yourself. I'd interview in a suit and probably tend toward a bowtie ... again, a slightly "against the norm" sort of way to put myself out there.

In short:

1. I'd REALLY love this job.
2. We'd be significantly more comfortable financially and could even begin to prepare for retirement a bit more assertively.
3. I'm worried about how I present for a formal interview session with the Dali.
4. I'm really enjoying the 'stache and would like to keep it rolling.
5. I think I can look professional, albeit in an "out of the box" sort of way.

Let's discuss.
Who would take it off? I can grow it back within 4 months if I need to.
I'd love to be working in an arena that accepts me for who I am, but I need a foot in the door to do so.

Who would keep it? At what point would the risk of losing the opportunity outweigh that decision?

Dear Dr. B-dogs, Ph.D:

Kind sir, I think you would be perfectly OK with the 'stache. Play around with it and figure out the "least startling" appearance - enough out there, but not so odd as to be distracting to your appearance as seen by others.

Know thy interviewers. Stealth-observe them, and see how they dress. Mimic their dress, viz., colors, style, etc. Remember that Higher Ed. is much more forgiving then say, public school where I work. I don't know what I would do in my present situation if I had to interview for another job. I might shave, then again maybe not. With the bowtie (kudos for that - I wear them too): it's a balancing act. Higher education is a different world from the rest of us. Bowties are ok and not too weird up there. Here in public school, I would never wear a bowtie to an interview. I wouldn't make it to the next round. Put on the outfit you plan on wearing to the interview, complete with 'stache. Walk around town or better yet, around campus, and see what happens. Notice how people, especially faculty, treat you.

So in sum:
1. Balance, my friend.
2. Play around with the 'stache and see what happens. Do one day "out there." One day "quiet." One day "in-between." Notice people's reactions.
3. The bowtie may be a little over-the-top with the Dali. If you want to go with the bow - balance with an ultra-conservative suit (and no straw boater and spectator shoes, either.)

I don't think you need to shave it. Just play it down a bit. I don't believe (in the most recent photo with your wife) that your 'stache is really that "out there." If you do decide to shave, you can grow it back. You are blessed with rapid growth.

Take care, sir.
Good luck. You are in my prayers.
Allen

Oh, I re-read your post. Think of it this way, too - you already know your interviewers. If you shave, I believe it would be much more of a shock to them than if you kept it and played it down for the day. Keep the 'stache.

You can always post a pic of you in the outfit and ask our opinions - we are more than happy to offer them.


Allen

Would I? Nah. I'm a CNC programmer/machinist, though. I doubt a company would care about my stache. Just design, program, and machine good parts!

That is your call obviously, BD. One point I will make is you've only had your current stache 4 months I believe and your stache grows fast. You could always grow it back in no time (which you did mention in your post). Now, if you hadn't trimmed and had been growing it for 3 years or whatever (a longer period of time)...then to me the decision would be much more difficult.

Good luck with the interview! You'll look good stache or no stache..

This is a very real and pertinent topic for discussion in this Forum for many here - with perhaps, the exception of the self employed and retired. Do you maintain and assert your individually or conform to the norm and to what you perceive others expect?

For a small handful of us here, the handlebar has become a way of life. We have cultivated it for years and are now quite attached to it, literally and figuratively. It has become part of our identity - removal would be like amputation of any other personal appendage.

To most others, its just a temporary experimentation, trend or seasonal thing - like playoff beards. The attachment isn't as great and it can be parted with more easily.

In the final analysis you must do what is the best for you and your dependents. That does not necessarily mean either/or - there is a middle ground. If the Dali is too far out there for a conservative interview committee you may be facing, then a neatly cropped 'tache might be more acceptable for the interview and beyond. From there, you can easily branch out again once you've settled into the new corporate culture.

There are many examples of fine 'taches in a corporate environment. A favourite of mine is Dr. Dieter Zetsche (Dr Z), businessman and the Chairman of Daimler AG and Head of Mercedes-Benz cars since 2006.

Either way, you will arrive at the right decision for you.

I would echo much of the above - know the work culture you're entering. If the mustache is an asset, keep it as is. A detriment, trim it way back, or shave as necessary. The when you're a "member" of the work group, after a while, they will accept you however you present yourself.

Best of luck,

Bob

I did it once five years ago for an interview, and immediately regretted it. The fact that I didn't get the job made me regret it that much more.

I don't think your 'stache looks unprofessional at all, and, being that you are already acquainted with some of your potential interviewers, I'd have to agree with Allen in that it'd be more of a shock to see you without it.

Ultimately, though, it's your call. If you feel that the moustache is hindering your ability to greatly improve the quality of your life, well... it will always grow back.

For my most recent significant period of time spent with anyone that may show up on interview panels, I was without 'stache. The Dean, who will supervise this position, may remember me, as I think she was impacted (in a good way) by one particular presentation I did. The 'stache would be new for her.

There is one other staff member who is likely to be a part of the interview process with whom I interact fairly regularly. She has seen the evolution of this particular 'stache and has even processed with me whether or not it would be a distraction while meeting with students. She's a big fan.

Harv: Aside from not getting the job, why did you regret keeping it?

Schnauzer: As always ... well articulated advice. I would fall more closely into the latter of the camps you describe, although I wouldn't call it "trendy" as I tend to avoid trends. But I take it/leave it with ease and don't necessarily have a huge attachment to it. Yet.

Allen: (I hold an Ed.D.) Sound advice. I've got a pretty good sense of "style" from that department. They're all environmentalists (School of Environmental and Natural Resources), so it's not often I'd see a tie at all. They all dress professionally, but you can sense that they're not but two seconds from getting into outdoor clothes at any given moment.

Also worth noting is that there are at least two fantastic beards that I can recall among the faculty. Nothing approaching David Dade stature, but they're competition worthy. There is no guarantee, obviously, that they'd be in on the interview process.

Sorry, Troy - I was in a bit of a hurry when I typed that. Of course, yours is an Ed.D. It's kind of like the mixup between DMA and Ph.D common in the music world. I beg your forgiveness.

It is hard for me to judge as far as how the 'stache might impact your students, as opposed to mine. My kids are in junior high , and unable to grow more than peach fuzz. Yet, there is that 'stache envy, even at their young age. When I go back to my alma mater to use the academic library there, the reaction is really positive, even from frat boys who wouldn't give me the time of day when I was at college. The only downfall I can see is if the 'stache looks TOO far-out if you are trying to discipline kids. If you did a full Dali that spanned your face, that would be too much (unless you were applying for a position in the art department -yuk yuk).

Again, be yourself. The world can take you or leave you. You may get the job; you may not. So be it. If you get the job, it will be on your merits as a man and an Ed.D, not because of your hirsute appendage.

Cheers from a lowly MS in Ed.

Allen

Sorry, I guess I was a bit unclear - I shaved clean for the interview.

I wouldnt shave. I cannot see how the style of your mustache, or if you even have one will matter. What will matter is your experience, education and reputation for how you work. Sounds like the people you are interviewing with already know these things anyway. Don't over analyse [sp] this.

Here! Here! (or Hear! Hear! - depending on your explanation for the derivation of this phrase)

Being pragmatic about it, is there a stated no-facial-hair dress code for this position? If not then IMHO you should not sh*ve.


Blimey - what does "processed with me" mean? Isn't there a movement for Clear English (or American) over there? So you walked together "Down The Avenue" discussing it?

David

I would not shave it off.

A sudden change in your appearance might be perceived by those that see you on a day to day basis that perhaps you were trying a little too hard. Also, I'm not sure what potential cycling between bewhiskered and clean shaven actually signals - if anything?

I think this is a bit short sighted, albeit idealistic. And I'm an idealist ... which is, perhaps, at the source of my angst.

What should matter is my experience, education, reputation, etc. But, having been on both sides of many selection processes, what ends up mattering is what the interview board can find to distinguish one candidate from any number of finalists ... all of whom can do the job. It becomes about "who fits best with us and the mission we claim to serve". At that point, when what's being considered is "best fit", the discussion rarely focuses on those attributes mentioned above. It's at these times, unfortunately, when the outliers are magnified ... and not in a good way. It's human nature. The social psychologist in me could spend a long time explaining why people do this, but I think we could each come up with an experience where that outlier status has resulted in harm. This, despite the fact that the outlier himself/herself could present a resume of experiences that were not deserving of harm (who is?).

We don't wear these mustaches to be like everybody else or because they make people comfortable. We grow them for many reasons ... most of which center around the fact that our 'tache becomes a means to express ourselves apart from the norm. I contend that, during an interview process, we may want to appear "of the norm" and have people be comfortable with us ... while we stand apart and ahead of the rest of the finalists. A dichotomous dilemma to be certain.

Perhaps not ... and for those of us with secure employment ... it won't matter. I'd love to only find jobs and work for people for whom this simply isn't an issue (I'm currently in one). But I'm at the point in my career where to advance means extreme competition. I'm already VERY selective about what I apply for. Opportunities don't come up very often at all (I'm staying here in Vermont, so my search is pretty much contained within this University). So when I do, I have to ask these questions and seek the honest answer ... even if that answer includes bias.

But yes ... I could very well be over-analyzing this.

'Tis the nature of the beast. We all do this in many ways, at many times in life. Sometimes being highly educated is not a good thing. We think too much about stuff. We agonize a great deal on things over which we have no control.

I keep trying to put myself in your shoes. Would I shave? I don't know, honestly. My 'stache took over a year to get where it is now, not 4 months. Hmmm. I think I am over-analyzing this as well.

Allen